Christian teachers such as this video depicts, should make us weep and pray. It is no wonder people reject Christianity and become atheists. However, most Calvinists I know are loving and caring people. The video merely depicts what can happen to a person who truly believes in a cruel God. Thank God most Calvinists, in their heart of hearts, don’t really believe what they have given “lip” service to.
Warning: This video should be seen only by those who know in their heart of hearts (and have no doubts about it) that God loves all people with an everlasting love. Otherwise, please do not watch it. It could destroy your peace and joy in Jesus. Their is no good news in this video.
Does God Love Everyone? by Dr. Robert Morey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzsEkCC_r9Q
Dr. Morey’s closing words:
“…Leave the Christian Church…. Stop cluttering up the pews. We who remain will be in revival the moment you hit the door because the greatest hindrance to revival and reformation are the dead beat unregenerate humanists who clutter up the churches – shouldn’t be here because you don’t submit to the Scriptures – you shouldn’t be here. You have your own religion. Good, go for it! Then you will know that you are in need of a Savior.”
I will know I am in need of a Savior? What good is knowing I need a Savior if I don’t know that I even have a Savior? That’s the bottom line of Calvinism. That is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That’s the depressing message of “bad news of great sadness that will be for most people,” the total opposite of the Gospel (see Luke 2:10).
Jacob I loved, and Esau I hated? (Mal. 1:2-3)
This was a play on words similar to Christ’s command to hate our family (Lu. 14:26). Of course Jesus wants us to love our families, but in our heart of hearts, our deepest love should be for God. This is hyperbole—something very common in ancient eastern writings. God’s hate regarding Esau relates to something about Esau that God disliked in a greater way than what He disliked about Jacob the “deceiver.” That’s all! When God “elects” someone over another, it does not mean He “loves” him or her more. Rather, He is delegating to them a greater responsibility in His service. The same goes for God’s chosen people, the Israelites. He did not choose them because He was impartial to the rest of humanity. On the contrary, He wanted a nation through which He could bless all peoples of the earth! “In you all the families of the earth shall be blessed” Ge. 12:3. (See also Ge. 18:18; 22:18; 26:4; 28:14; Ac.3:25, 26; Ga. 3:8). Paul referred to this as the “Gospel” in Galatians 3:8! Now that is truly good news.
For an excellent explanation on this perplexing statement, see this article by George Sarris; Jacob I Loved, and Esau I hated
Here is another perspective by Pastor Peter Hiett in Denver CO: Peter Hiett
Consider how the Parable of the Lost Sheep is understood in the mind of a Calvinist:
Then Jesus told them this parable:
“Suppose a shepherd has a hundred sheep and he loses all of them. Doesn’t he go out into the open country and goes after one of his lost sheep until he finds it?
And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home. And having rescued that one sheep he leaves the other ninety-nine lost in the wild.
He calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me! I have chosen to rescue one of my lost sheep.’
Adapted from a post by Richard Beck in www.Experimentaltheology.blogspot.ca
Calvinism in a nutshell by Paul Dietrich
God is the savior of all humanity….NO
God will have all people saved…NO
Christ is the Savior of the world….NO
All things will be reconciled to God….NO
For God so loved the world….NO
As is Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive…NO
The free gift came upon all men unto justification of life…NO
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins…YES…. and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world…. NO
God will be all in all….NO
If Dr. Robert Morey (Calvinism) is right, I wish I (Gerry Beauchemin) were never born.
If Calvinism is true, we need to rewrite the most comforting passages in the Bible:
For God so loved some people that He gave…Jn 3:16
I will draw some people to myself… Jn 12:32
He is the propitiation for some sins… 1 John 2;2
Behold, the lamb of God who takes away the sin of some people. John 1:29
I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be for some people. Luke 2:10
Come to me, some of you who are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Mt 11:28
The Spirit is upon me, because He sent me to heal some who are broken-heart… some who mourn…Luke 4:18
“Father, forgive some of them, for they do not know what they are doing.” Luke 23:34
“God saw everything He made, and indeed it was very bad for most of humanity.” Gen 1:31
etc etc.
Feel free to finish this list
For more evidence that God truly loves everyone, see “Hope Beyond Hell” Chapter two and Appendix One.
Free download at HopeBeyondHell.net
May 20, 2012
I am living proof that god loves the person, yet often hates the deed! I have no problem giving my email! I do know the refiners fire. I have 23 years of miracles to back me up! Jeff.kissee@yahoo.com as a matter of fact I am in another one now!
May 20, 2012
I am living proof that Father loves the man, yet hates the deeds! I know the refiners fire, as well as the deep love and protection of our Lord. 23 years of miracles ! Jeff.kissee@yahoo.com write I am an open book!
May 20, 2012
Knowing that God loves everyone is the only truth that can give us true assurance that any of us are loved. May the Lord continue to bless you abundantly Jeff.
May 22, 2012
Wow… just wow. Thank you for putting years of frustration about the Calvinist mindset into one hopeful sentence.
May 20, 2012
Thanks, Gerry.
Good to have the harshness and the anti-scriptural reality of Calvinism declared in no uncertain terms.
Though the verses Dr. Morey uses are in the bible, they are not all that the bible declares in this context.
How important it is for ‘correctly cutting the word of truth’ is demonst4rated in your rebuttal.
Jeff
May 20, 2012
Thank you Jeff. There is so much more that could be said in defense of God loving everyone. May God open Dr. Morey’s heart to the truth.
May 20, 2012
The above video was the most deplorable, sarcastic spirited, confessing christian, I have ever heard speak! I am so glad that the JOY of the LORD, has always been my strength. I have only one more comment to pass, and it is this-if that man had approached me, when in my darkest hour, and just released from prison, hoping to find an answer to life. After being told by an inmate, that God was my only hope-and to hear, and to discern the hard-harsh spirit that came from that mans mouth today in that video clip-if I had of heard such words coming from a man of whom I thought was sent from God -that would have been the end of me, of ever seeking, a God like that. And what’s more he may have had less teeth than before he spoke-and I’m talking about the OLD MAN now. Yes, I’m so pleased the first gospel message I ever heard, as a proclaiming atheist, that God is Love, and that He loved me just as I am-that was good news-and it has been Good News now for over 40 years- yours Sincerely in His Love-Tom)
May 20, 2012
I’m so glad you heard the true Gospel too! Let’s keep doing everything we can to bring this world truly GOOD NEWS!
May 20, 2012
All Calvinists should be like Dr. Robert Morey! Moreover we should not be shocked by his attitude because logically consistent Calvinism lays the foundation for it. Morey says (in the video), “If you’re gonna be an atheist, be an honest one.” Echoing this sentiment I say, “If you’re gonna be a Calvinist, be an honest one.” And that is what Morey is. In short, I’d rather be stuck on a bus next to a morose and morbid Morey than a missional-minded modern-day Calvinist pretending like he has reason to “show me the love of Jesus”.
May 20, 2012
Excellent point. Thanks.
May 20, 2012
Why not sit NEXT to a Biblical Universal Reconciliationists and MAYBE learn something…. LOL
May 20, 2012
oh well, I never was a good speller…
May 20, 2012
ALL FLESH shall see the Salvation of God = NOPE
SOME FLESH shall see the Salvation of God, while the rest will not = Traditional Orthodoxy
”It’s absurd to think that God LOST everything with what Adam did;
BUT, it’s even more absurd to think that He WILL not get it ALL back!” — R. S. M.
Well, I guess we have to live with many folk who like to MAKE GOD ABSURD!
May 20, 2012
Wow! Now that’s a HARD dude to love. Can you imagine being his son? Or wife? Come Lord Jesus!
May 20, 2012
Dr. Morey could frighten Jesus out of the pews! Now I know the attitude and the approach that lead some Calvinist Christians to nod approvingly as Michael Servetus was grotesquely burned at the stake. “Ye shall know them by their fruits.” Dr. Morey offers bitter, sour fruit, fruit for a divided table, fruit for a divided house, fruit for those with hearts of stone, not of flesh. Can you imagine Jesus looking down from the cross, looking at the faces below, and suddenly pinching his lips in a mocking, sarcastic gesture and enacting a bitter caricature of the onlookers? And as for Dr. Morey’s scriptural attack, he dismisses an ocean of rich theological and philosophical literature, from Origen onward. I hope you know, Mr. Beauchemin, that you have at least two vital things that make you more of a faith-defender than Dr. Morey: (1) Your well-researched analysis, which shows your intellectual openness, patience, and precision, and (2) Your gentle example, which is the healthy fruit of a house reunited.
May 20, 2012
I watched the video a second time, and wanted to make one final comment. First, I think your point is the strongest: that the Jacob/Esau passages (in Malachi and Romans) relate to God’s benevolent elective teleology, and the terms “love” and “hate” should be carefully contextualized, say, as references to the relations of the Israelites and Edomites.
I just wanted to add a minor, logical point: Even if we accept Dr. Morey’s claim that God literally hated the person Esau, this claim does not entail that (1) God does not simultaneously love Esau, and (2) God’s hatred of Esau was/is permanent. To clarify: (1) I have sometimes hated my brother, sometimes my hatred is a response to a wrong, but my hatred is both mixed and temporary, and this hatred is nothing compared to the foundational bond of love I have with him. Rich emotional mixtures correspond with the rich mixtures of life. Dr. Morey claims that God hates Esau, but this is consistent with God overwhelmingly loving Esau “behind” this hatred. Love and hate, in other words, are not mutually exclusive states, and both can occupy the same emotive moment. Dr. Morey cannot infer the total absence of God’s love from the presence of God’s hatred. (2) This second point is like the first: Even if God literally hated the person Esau, it does not follow from this information that God currently hates Esau.
I think that Dr. Morey has not proven his case. His inferences seem sloppy, but more importantly, his inferences show the silhouette of his heart: he jumps joyfully to a disturbing conclusion.
May 20, 2012
As for Dr. Morey’s emphasis on “God’s wrath continues” and “God’s abiding wrath” and so on: (1) It is not clear that this phrasing actually means “lasts forever” or “lasts eternally”. (2) However, even if we accept that God’s wrath does “last forever”, as Dr. Morey interprets it, it is not clear in what way this wrath abides: A past event “abides” forever in the memory of God, but that “abiding” past event is not a present event.
Anyway, sorry I am writing so much. I suppose my wrath is abiding, but I feel better now.
May 20, 2012
There’s a reason why I’ve never heard of Morey, it’s because his evangelical theology is as foul and askewed as the Phelps’ of The Westboro Baptist Church. I often wonder why people like Morey use the gospels for ammunition against nonbelievers and even fellow Christians instead of using them as bandages for broken. It’s obvious that God loves ALL people, after all if he hated anyone he could have seized their coming into existence. Morey’s headstrong notion that he has the authority to preach this message of infectious hatred is continually being drowned out by the rising Good News you help bring into the world, Gerry. Thanks for sharing and closing with such a geniune rebuttal. I can’t help but to think of a time when I can stand next all the Moreys of the world in Heaven and say, “See, you were wrong all along, but now let us rejoice that OUR God is higher than your ways.”
May 20, 2012
I think most people get confuse by the word salvation. Many there are that refer to salvation but few there are that really consider what it means. Look at the word in context. My thoughts are that salvation as used in most places in the Bible is referring to restoration. What is salvation anyways? Can you put a clear definitive explanation to it? All men were saved on the cross, most don’t or won’t or can’t experience it until they have some degree of repentance. Then and only then, will they experience it. Hope this might help. Maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about. The Bible (k.j.v.) is very ambiguous.
May 20, 2012
Isn’t it interesting that to be a true believer (according to Morey) one must “HATE his father and mother,his wife and children, his brothers and sisters and his own life” Luke 14:26″. What foolishness! God is love! where does the Bible teach or imply that God is hate?? What a freedom we have in knowing that God loves not only the “elect”, but ALL, even me.
May 20, 2012
This man’s throat is an open grave and his breath smells of rotting flesh. He is a minister of death.
13 `Wo to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye shut up the reign of the heavens before men, for ye do not go in, nor those going in do ye suffer to enter.
15 `Wo to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye go round the sea and the dry land to make one proselyte, and whenever it may happen — ye make him a son of gehenna twofold more than yourselves.
May 20, 2012
Don’t you just the hate truth? According to your gospel, the ball is in your court. You are your own savior. God just supplies the means. Whether or not you make it to heaven is up to you. Now you can boast since your neighbor who did not make the wonderful choices you made, is in hell because of your dutiful decision. Of Course, if you even believe there is a hell. Perhaps you should eliminate that belief also which would make it an even more wonderful view of salvation.
THE GOD OF THE BIBLE IS NOT YOUR GOD!
May 20, 2012
WOW! I had to stop half way and catch my breath of life from the Father! I discern that this man has a religious intellectual spirit of the seminary doctrines he absorbed. I also detect another more fleshy spirit of gender confusion! Of course he uses the KJV the one Paul used. It is sad the word miseo may have been a word hijacked as many of our words today have been! The Aramaic Lamsa bible does not use the word hate nor does the God’s Word bible and the Good News Bible or the Contemporary English bible. Fenton and the Amplified have more to say also. I can see that the Calvinistic mind set has not changed since the burning of those they judged as witches in the 1600’s and even later. Many of those killed in the name of God were filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues that got them branded as evil or hated ones! Oh well our opposition will work it’s way and we will be perfected! This man/brother will be reconciled to the Father hopefully sooner than later! The spirit of the inquisition is alive and well as it vomits forth from the mouth of the Red Dragoon!
May 20, 2012
WOW! My heart aches watching this. Gerry, thanks for allowing our Father to use you to share the unfailing love of our Father.
May 20, 2012
I had to stop watching after a couple of minutes because I kept seeing him in the garb of a Puritan judge at the witch trials, and relishing it. Only Father can give those of us who see that He IS love, by His spirit flowing through us, the ability to love a poor, deceived person such as Dr. Morey. It was startling to read the anger and hate on his face rather than compassion for the “damned unfortunates” whom “God hates”…..
Thank you for giving this opportunity for comparison with the true Gospel of Jesus Christ! God so loved…..
May 20, 2012
Hi Gerry, I had to go to Youtube and watch it, so I could click on dislike and leave a comment. Here it is…
His ideology and/or doctrinal views are the same as the majority of cult leaders. It’s all about control and power that he and his peers use to control the members of their churches. Anyone that has any kind of discernment can see right through it, and the true motivation behind it. However, some of his acting and impressions were quite humorous.
May 21, 2012
Ouch! Life is a demonstration of contrasts. God and His Spirit IS LOVE and LIFE. Man and his own ways are hate and death. Where is it taught that God loves everybody he asks? Everywhere in the Bible (only AFTER He has opened your eyes like the example of Paul). The definition of GRACE this guy surely does NOT know. He sounds like he is perfectly content and willing to accept that his very own natural born children may be tortured without end or mercy by the Father of ALL. This is love ; that a man give up his own life for another. Jesus, of course, is the ultimate example of this. God reads the HEARTS of men. This man’s is as hard as I’ve ever heard. We are to understand that God is using this man’s testimony to clearly show the contrasts between forgiveness and hate. We are to “LOVE” our enemies…THAT is where the Bible teaches that God LOVES ALL mankind. 1 John 2:2 clearly states this. My favorite go to verse. Many more come to light only AFTER the LIGHT has been SHOWN to a person. I do not “hate” this man…but the “spirit” of condemnation he professes. That is why God has the true believers here to expose and speak out against the spirit of darkness. Love, Rich.
May 22, 2012
[…] And there is my short explanation on the site where I present Dr. Morey’s video: Shocking Reality of Calvinism […]
May 23, 2012
This guy shows a complete misunderstanding of what God’s wrath is and how it functions.
I left the following comments over at Hellboundthemovie.com….. and thought I would share them with the folks over here.
Gods wrath is not judgment from a punitive judge, but rather correction from a loving parent that refuses to give up on his/her children and bears with them correcting them in order to bring them from a bad place full of misery to a good place full of joy and dancing.
In Hebrews 10: 30 where the writer says “the lord will judge his people” and “to me belongs vengeance, I will recompense” he is directly quoting from Deutronomy 32. This text is entirely about God’s judgment where the Hebrew word translated as “judge” is “Mishpat” which is better translated as “vindicate”….. in other words to make right before God (in the New Testament – justification). The text later talks of the nations “shouting for joy with his people”
In other words God’s judgment has corrected them and brought them into a good place. God’s judgment and wrath is not separate from his mercy and compassion as is clearly expressed in the prophets (especially Isaiah). It is restorative justice, being correction and restoration for the oppressor and justice for the oppressed.
This guy also really gets Romans wrong, being that Romans 9 should not be prooftexted but rather read in context. At the beginning of Romans, in Romans 1 and 2, Paul gives us an example of how God’s wrath functions (at least in this particular context). In Romans 1 and 2 Paul clearly says that God’s wrath allows people (gives people over) to follow their own ways and go into their own depravity….. but that while this is happening God is bearing with them in patience waiting for them to repent and return to him and his mercy.
Thus Romans 9: 21 – 24, when not prooftexted, is re-itterating this concept and fleshing it out with more depth. This is easier to see in the better translations like the Jonathon Mitchell Bible.
It’s saying that God’s wrath allows people to go their own ways into their destruction (meaning personal loss), and dishonour…..but when they repent and come back to him they will have an intimate understanding of his mercy, and become vessels of honour and glory.
These Calvinistic types have this text wrong. The vessels of honour and dishonour mentioned in Romans 9:21 are not two different people, one group chosen for God’s wrath, and the other for God’s glory, but rather the same person.
The person who is the vessel of dishonour BECOMES the vessel of honour. This can be seen in 2 Timothy 2: 20-22 where Paul describes the concept of the vessels in some detail. In 2 Timothy the vessel of dishonour is purged and becomes a vessel of honour “hallowed and useful to the owner”.
So in Romans Paul is talking about the same concepts. God wrath allows people to go their own ways and become vessels of dishonour fit for destruction (personal loss), but God is patient and longsuffering with them, so that when they repent and cry out for God’s mercy they become vessels of honour, with an intimate understanding of God’s mercy that they never would have had if they never had have followed their own paths into their own depravity. Thus God’s wrath (in this sense) has allowed them to go their own ways into sin, and in the end they learn their lessons the hard way, but also learned about God’s mercy in a truly deep way. They have learned about the horror of sin and the depth of God’s mercy.
So when people repent and come back to God and his mercy they become vessels of glory, having an intimate understanding of God’s mercy…. and thus a deep understanding of God’s grace and love, that they never would have had if they had not gone astray.
So to re-itterate God’s wrath allowing people to go into sin and depravity ultimately leads to people crying out for his mercy and then having and intimate understanding of his mercy leading to a deep understanding of God’s grace and love.
The fall didn’t fool God….Sin hasn’t fooled a loving God….. it is ultimately the path to mercy through justice.
Therefore what Paul is saying in Romans 9: 20 – 24 lines up with what he’s said earlier in Romans about God’s wrath….. it lines up with what he’s said about the vessels of honour and dishonour in 2 Timothy….. and it lines up with what he says later in Romans about God locking ALL up in sin that he may be merciful to ALL.
It lines up with the ultimate reconciliation text of Romans 5.
Also God’s character, ways and wrath don’t change in the afterlife….. any afterlife judgment is still a path to mercy through justice. He will eventually be merciful to ALL just as Romans declares.
This fits with a loving God’s great plans for ALL of the human race, where justice and mercy kiss, and “mercy triumphs over judgment”…. just as the scriptures say.
Dr. Morey’s exegesis of God’s wrath as set forth in Romans is a bunch of nonsense, and anybody who is truly in tune with their conscience (which Paul says in Romans is in tune with God’s law) knows it. Him and his ilk are like the Pharisees, in that they know the scriptures (or think they do), but I have to question if one can really truly know Jesus Christ and his love, and say things like Dr Morey has espoused.
Oh…. and as well he made the typical Calvinist argument that In John 3: 16 “the world” is meaning those that Jesus died for, being in their understanding, only the “elect”.
But earlier on in John the writer cleary says
John 1: 10
“In the world He was, and the world came into being through Him, and the world knew Him not. To His own He came and those Who are his own accepted him not.”
So if “the world” that he came for is only the “elect” that are Christians…. then one has to ask… how is it that he came to those who are his own (the world), who DIDN’T accept him?
John 1: 10 clearly shows what John’s understanding of “the world” is…. it’s everybody, including those who rejected Christ (in this particular case many of the Jewish people).
So if the world is everybody then there is this part of John 3 to consider.
“For God does not dispatch His Son into the world that He should be judging the world, but that the World may be saved through him.”
I actually agree with Dr. Morey about something. God IS going to save “the world”.
Otherwise Jesus will have failed God in his task
I think that guys like Dr. Morey know that if Jesus isn’t going to save the world that he’s failed in the task set before him, but of course their understanding of “the world” being only the elect makes it so that their view of a sovereign God, who can surely accomplish all he has set out to do, remains intact.
Yet John 1:10 crumbles this theology showing that these neo-Calvinists like Dr. Morey are wrong in their understanding of who “the world” is….. which means that either they are wrong in their understanding of eternal hell, or in their their understanding of God’s sovereignity. This is because if their understanding of God’s sovereignity is right, then God’s got to save everyone…. which would mean that their understanding of eternal hell is wrong.
Of course then, if their understanding of eternal hell is right then their understanding of God’s sovereignity is wrong.
Dr. Morey’s theology doesn’t crumble before just “mystics”, “tender hearts”, and such, it crumbles before the Bible (and easily I might add). The “mystics” and “tender hearts” are the people who are also picking up on what Holy Spirit is saying, and who are tuned into their consciences (which as I pointed out are tuned into God’s laws). Every one of these sources of God’s truth cries out against Dr. Morey’s theology.
May 23, 2012
This guy is intellectually dishonest. He tells “unbelievers” to get out of the church. What he does not say is that according to their eveil philosophy these poor souls have no choice but to be in rebellion. Calvinism is pure evil. It is dishonest to say there are 2 classes of people. What he should say is less than 1% of people are loved and God hates and will torture everyone else including, all those babies that have been born today, those six children just killed in a housefire, and the woman who was raped and murdered last week. She is going to something far worse. Eternal torture from God! What an evil lie. This is wicked teaching beyond words.
May 23, 2012
I find it difficult to be too hard on Doc Morey, you know? He’s a product of popular doctrine. The same doctrine had me tangled up for over a decade. I have the kind of all or nothing attitude that drives me to give everything my best, or not fool with it at all, so I was exceptionally hard when it came time to teach/preach judgement. Even though, down deep, I had reservations about the harshness of God and His election, I found it hard to resist the prevalent teachings that seemed to me to be everywhere. Thank the Lord that He saw fit to reveal to me His true nature!!! To see Him (even through the dark glass) for who He really is, is unparalleled joy!!! I feel terrible for those whom I’ve affected negatively with a gospel that really isn’t a gospel…but never again! May Christ soon remove the scales from Dr. Morey’s eyes, so that his joy can be full.
P.S. Thanks, Gerry, for all you do. 🙂
May 25, 2012
For God sent his son into the world to condemn the world but NOT that the world would be saved through him. (revised John 3:17)
God, who is NOT the savior of all men, ONLY those who believe (revised 1 Tim 4:10b)
God turned over ALL to disobedience so that he would only have mercy on a few of them (revised Rom 11:32).
Thus, SOME of Israel shall be saved (revised Rom 11:26a)
July 10, 2012
Response to Mr.Van Belle ,
The notion that the verse that states, ‘Jacob I have loved and Esau I have hated’ is a figurative hyperbole is plausible. However, the notion that one can simultaneously hate and love someone at the same time is NOT logically possible . One could at one second love them and the next second love them again and alternate back and forth is possible, however, one cannot love and hate them at the same instant since love and hate of a person (if by the word ‘love ‘ we refer to a feeling of fondness ) since they are thematic opposites ,
It is more plausible to argue that God could have perhaps hated Esau at one point and loved him later …., but not at the exact same instant .